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	<title>Comments on: The Death Penalty and the Perils of Progressive Fatalism</title>
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	<link>http://www.merge-left.org/2012/05/28/the-death-penalty-and-the-perils-of-progressive-fatalism/</link>
	<description>Right Lane Ends -- Merge Left</description>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.merge-left.org/2012/05/28/the-death-penalty-and-the-perils-of-progressive-fatalism/#comment-2658</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 03:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.merge-left.org/?p=7413#comment-2658</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[By the way, if anyone knows anything about Word Press, I&#039;m trying to figure out how to configure it so that tags, not categories, show up on each post (above the fold) and how to add the &quot;there&#039;s more&quot; tag (right now it&#039;s &quot;...&quot;).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, if anyone knows anything about Word Press, I&#8217;m trying to figure out how to configure it so that tags, not categories, show up on each post (above the fold) and how to add the &#8220;there&#8217;s more&#8221; tag (right now it&#8217;s &#8220;&#8230;&#8221;).</p>
<p> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-2658" src="http://www.merge-left.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('2658', 'add', 'www.merge-left.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_');" title="Like" /> <span id="karma-2658-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-2658" src="http://www.merge-left.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('2658', 'subtract', 'www.merge-left.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_')" title="Dislike" /> <span id="karma-2658-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.merge-left.org/2012/05/28/the-death-penalty-and-the-perils-of-progressive-fatalism/#comment-2657</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2012 23:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.merge-left.org/?p=7413#comment-2657</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sweet.

I think your point raises three important things.  First, people often view politics through a partisan lens. So the same policy done under Obama as under Bush is seen differently by Democrats and Republicans. (There is a lot of evidence on this point).  Another mechanism is tribalism - the demand that everyone line up on one side and that one&#039;s own side is all right and your opponent&#039;s all wrong.   The third is the view that all politics must be understood (and fought) through the two party election process.  In such a case, the only option is to take the lesser evil. (This is deeply wrong if you look at history, recent and long before).   And of course, multiple mechanisms can operate in the same person AND they tend to reinforce each other.

There is another thing going on that related - the acceptance of conservative frames for purposes of arguments.  Galbraith has been really strong on this, addressing how so many take &quot;markets&quot; for granted and can&#039;t envision any way of thinking about the economy that doesn&#039;t fit with market fundamentalism.  

But even with all these things operating, there are plenty of people that can take a more progressive position but misread the political tea leaves.  Paul had series of posts on this subject (Page and Jacobs&#039; &lt;a href=&quot;http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/C/bo6683623.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Class War?: What Americans Really Think about Economic Inequality&lt;/a&gt; is a great resource too.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sweet.</p>
<p>I think your point raises three important things.  First, people often view politics through a partisan lens. So the same policy done under Obama as under Bush is seen differently by Democrats and Republicans. (There is a lot of evidence on this point).  Another mechanism is tribalism &#8211; the demand that everyone line up on one side and that one&#8217;s own side is all right and your opponent&#8217;s all wrong.   The third is the view that all politics must be understood (and fought) through the two party election process.  In such a case, the only option is to take the lesser evil. (This is deeply wrong if you look at history, recent and long before).   And of course, multiple mechanisms can operate in the same person AND they tend to reinforce each other.</p>
<p>There is another thing going on that related &#8211; the acceptance of conservative frames for purposes of arguments.  Galbraith has been really strong on this, addressing how so many take &#8220;markets&#8221; for granted and can&#8217;t envision any way of thinking about the economy that doesn&#8217;t fit with market fundamentalism.  </p>
<p>But even with all these things operating, there are plenty of people that can take a more progressive position but misread the political tea leaves.  Paul had series of posts on this subject (Page and Jacobs&#8217; <a href="http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/C/bo6683623.html" rel="nofollow">Class War?: What Americans Really Think about Economic Inequality</a> is a great resource too.)</p>
<p> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-2657" src="http://www.merge-left.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('2657', 'add', 'www.merge-left.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_');" title="Like" /> <span id="karma-2657-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">2</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-2657" src="http://www.merge-left.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('2657', 'subtract', 'www.merge-left.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_')" title="Dislike" /> <span id="karma-2657-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Emocrat</title>
		<link>http://www.merge-left.org/2012/05/28/the-death-penalty-and-the-perils-of-progressive-fatalism/#comment-2656</link>
		<dc:creator>Emocrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2012 16:48:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.merge-left.org/?p=7413#comment-2656</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Terrific post. Your blog is bookmarked.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I suspect a lot of progressives, after years of conservative dominance (which is not the same as majority support for conservative opinions) have adopted an identity of being on defense, of being outnumbered, and just see the world through that lens.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Damn good question. 

I&#039;m not sure, of course, but in watching &quot;progressives&quot; defend Obama&#039;s lawless &quot;kill lists&quot;, drone wars and indefinite detention, I tend to think that a lot of people who self-ID that way really have neither a clue, nor a care as to what that word even means.

Perhaps that &quot;conservative&quot; lens has distorted the notion of Justice to the point of meaninglessness. To whit, when the State kills an innocent person, that can&#039;t possibly be Justice, even if it&#039;s popular, right? And that is precisely what happens, in addition to the other, more simple discrimination behind choosing who lives and who dies. That makes it a de facto Injustice as well. 

Take Obama&#039;s assertion that Due Process, &quot;Means what we say it does and nothing else. Period.&quot; They define any &quot;military age male as a combatant.&quot; Too bad if you&#039;re simply headed to the pharmacist to get some medicine for Mother. If you&#039;re on a road that is &quot;used by terrorists&quot; when a drone happens along, you&#039;re a combatant now.

Even some liberals have taken notice of this, like the NYTimes&#039; Andrew Rosenthal. And even though his criticism is most polite, this is the first comment on his blog post:

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/president-obamas-kill-list/?comments#permid=35

&lt;blockquote&gt; Mr. Rosenthal,
Read the comments your post has incited. You are sending people to Romney. Time to lay off Obama unless you want pure Tea Party government---and Romney would be doing all of this &amp; more on our dime employing private contractors run by fat-cat Repubs behind the scenes, Get a grip on your liberal angst until next December.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I have a couple friends that &quot;think&quot; in largely the same way. It&#039;s almost impossible for anyone consumed with &quot;Go Team Blue!&quot; to consider issues on their own terms. It&#039;s also archetypal behavior of Right-Wing Authoritarian Followers. 

As such, I think a lot of &quot;progressives&quot; have crippled themselves to the point of missing the largest points of all. They put &lt;i&gt;Not Making Waves&lt;/i&gt; with Leadership ahead of being truthful. And this is all based on the increasingly fantastical notion that &quot;Mitt Romney is, like, totally scary and EVERYTHING!&quot;

I&#039;m having a terribly difficult time distinguishing Democratic Loyalists from Republican Loyalists these days. They seem to operate on the same wavelength, yet neither would ever admit doing so.

With those kinds of blinders firmly attached, it&#039;s hard to imagine prominent &quot;progressives&quot; ever being terribly effective.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terrific post. Your blog is bookmarked.</p>
<blockquote><p>I suspect a lot of progressives, after years of conservative dominance (which is not the same as majority support for conservative opinions) have adopted an identity of being on defense, of being outnumbered, and just see the world through that lens.</p></blockquote>
<p>Damn good question. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure, of course, but in watching &#8220;progressives&#8221; defend Obama&#8217;s lawless &#8220;kill lists&#8221;, drone wars and indefinite detention, I tend to think that a lot of people who self-ID that way really have neither a clue, nor a care as to what that word even means.</p>
<p>Perhaps that &#8220;conservative&#8221; lens has distorted the notion of Justice to the point of meaninglessness. To whit, when the State kills an innocent person, that can&#8217;t possibly be Justice, even if it&#8217;s popular, right? And that is precisely what happens, in addition to the other, more simple discrimination behind choosing who lives and who dies. That makes it a de facto Injustice as well. </p>
<p>Take Obama&#8217;s assertion that Due Process, &#8220;Means what we say it does and nothing else. Period.&#8221; They define any &#8220;military age male as a combatant.&#8221; Too bad if you&#8217;re simply headed to the pharmacist to get some medicine for Mother. If you&#8217;re on a road that is &#8220;used by terrorists&#8221; when a drone happens along, you&#8217;re a combatant now.</p>
<p>Even some liberals have taken notice of this, like the NYTimes&#8217; Andrew Rosenthal. And even though his criticism is most polite, this is the first comment on his blog post:</p>
<p><a href="http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/president-obamas-kill-list/?comments#permid=35" rel="nofollow">http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/president-obamas-kill-list/?comments#permid=35</a></p>
<blockquote><p> Mr. Rosenthal,<br />
Read the comments your post has incited. You are sending people to Romney. Time to lay off Obama unless you want pure Tea Party government&#8212;and Romney would be doing all of this &#038; more on our dime employing private contractors run by fat-cat Repubs behind the scenes, Get a grip on your liberal angst until next December.</p></blockquote>
<p>I have a couple friends that &#8220;think&#8221; in largely the same way. It&#8217;s almost impossible for anyone consumed with &#8220;Go Team Blue!&#8221; to consider issues on their own terms. It&#8217;s also archetypal behavior of Right-Wing Authoritarian Followers. </p>
<p>As such, I think a lot of &#8220;progressives&#8221; have crippled themselves to the point of missing the largest points of all. They put <i>Not Making Waves</i> with Leadership ahead of being truthful. And this is all based on the increasingly fantastical notion that &#8220;Mitt Romney is, like, totally scary and EVERYTHING!&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m having a terribly difficult time distinguishing Democratic Loyalists from Republican Loyalists these days. They seem to operate on the same wavelength, yet neither would ever admit doing so.</p>
<p>With those kinds of blinders firmly attached, it&#8217;s hard to imagine prominent &#8220;progressives&#8221; ever being terribly effective.</p>
<p> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-2656" src="http://www.merge-left.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('2656', 'add', 'www.merge-left.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_');" title="Like" /> <span id="karma-2656-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">2</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-2656" src="http://www.merge-left.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('2656', 'subtract', 'www.merge-left.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_')" title="Dislike" /> <span id="karma-2656-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.merge-left.org/2012/05/28/the-death-penalty-and-the-perils-of-progressive-fatalism/#comment-2654</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2012 00:13:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.merge-left.org/?p=7413#comment-2654</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is. Thanks. Launching with a critique of Chris Hayes turned out to be ill timed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is. Thanks. Launching with a critique of Chris Hayes turned out to be ill timed.</p>
<p> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-2654" src="http://www.merge-left.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('2654', 'add', 'www.merge-left.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_');" title="Like" /> <span id="karma-2654-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-2654" src="http://www.merge-left.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('2654', 'subtract', 'www.merge-left.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_')" title="Dislike" /> <span id="karma-2654-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: The Big Hurt</title>
		<link>http://www.merge-left.org/2012/05/28/the-death-penalty-and-the-perils-of-progressive-fatalism/#comment-2653</link>
		<dc:creator>The Big Hurt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2012 19:37:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.merge-left.org/?p=7413#comment-2653</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[is &#039;notes on a theory&#039; your own blog dave? congrats!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>is &#8216;notes on a theory&#8217; your own blog dave? congrats!</p>
<p> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-2653" src="http://www.merge-left.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('2653', 'add', 'www.merge-left.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_');" title="Like" /> <span id="karma-2653-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">1</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-2653" src="http://www.merge-left.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('2653', 'subtract', 'www.merge-left.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_')" title="Dislike" /> <span id="karma-2653-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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